Spooks thoughts (again...)
Jan. 10th, 2011 03:45 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
dweomeroflightSpoilers for series eight and nine under cut :)
I've been thinking about how Spooks fandom has made me see characters as specific canon in my head that now will always be that way even though the show itself has never specified or necessarily even implied these things.
eg 1: Tariq and Dimitri both have crushes on Ruth and they both know they can't compete with Harry and sometimes go back to each others houses or the pub and talk about it and comfort each other.
eg 2: Even though Dimitri has a bit of a crush on Ruth, Beth/Dimitri is totally canon in my head now. Show don't deny this. Beth and Dimitri would be the shiz together.
eg 3: Beth has a wicked sense of humour and would enjoy playing tricks on Lucas in her spare time. Dimitri helps her, trying to make Ruth laugh. Again show, don't deny this ;)
eg 4: Malcolm was the one to be so overt to Ruth about what was happening with R/H back in series five days because he is too much like Ruth and he was afraid she would end up like him ie alone. Does Ruth know this? Is this why she is upset by him talking about her and Harry's date? Sometimes I think so.
eg 5: Ruth still hasn't put Danny's ghost to rest and at the Spooks endless angst rate probably never will. She has always been full of this s8 and 9 darkness and anger only now it is more obvious. The anger has been building up inside all along since there was never time to mourn. Fact. Maybe it even goes all the way back to Tom walking into an ocean. I have to rewatch and decide on that yet. But Zoe leaving, and Danny loving Zoe, that totally meant something to Ruth, even if it didn't to anyone else. That mattered and when other people just kept keeping on, was that Ruth already breaking a little inside?
Uhoh, my head starts to hurt when I think too much about Ruth because now I've got to thinking, maybe this really was building up ever since Tom started losing it and Ruth had a conversation about standing by Harry sitting on a bench and it all led to Danny dying and no time to grieve and she just never told anyone at all and Harry thinks thats a good thing in series four because Ruth is a born spook and she'll always be loyal to Harry but at the same time him admiring this in Ruth is him destroying her, helping to turn her into the person who can't be with him.
And maybe Ruth doesn't tell anyone about needing time to mourn after Danny again because she's trying to be the person Harry thinks she is or wants her to be ie the born spook. And then she comes back and George dying mirrors Danny dying and all of the other Spooks Ruth knew dying or leaving and it all comes back and her coldness in eight/nine mirrors the fact that Harry never stopped her from leaving him in 5.5 and that was maybe seen by Ruth as his approval of her becoming desesitisied into being more like the others when really what Harry loves about Ruth is her morality and her strange innocence AND OMG THAT NAIVITY HAS ALL BEEN STRIPPED AWAY FROM RUTH BUT SHE COULDN'T CONTROL THAT AND ALL OF THIS COULD BE SEEN AS HARRY'S FAULT AND SHIT I THINK I JUST GOT TO THE CRUX OF WHY RUTH IS SO ANGRY.
And then at the end of 9.8 when it's finally Harry's turn, Ruth is crying not just for Harry but for Lucas, for everyone, for herself because until now she's never allowed herself the outward show of emotion. There's no time to grieve yet again but she can't take it anymore and just does. It's been all bottled up inside until she just snapped. AND OMG I JUST REMEMBERED THAT TOM SHOT HARRY AT THE END OF 2.10 AND RUTH CRIES THEN AND BACK THEN I WASN'T REALLY CERTAIN WHO SHE WAS CRYING FOR? TOM- HER FRIEND? OR HARRY- HER BOSS LOVE? AND THAT MIRRORS LUCAS THREATENING TO SHOOT HARRY AND RUTH CRIES AGAIN AND AGAIN I DON'T KNOW WHO SHE'S REALLY CRYING FOR AND DID THE SHOW INTEND TO MAKE THAT PARALLEL BECAUSE THAT WAS PRETTY DAMN CLEVER IF THEY DID AND NOW I WANT TO REWATCH ALL OF THE EARLY SEASONS TO TRY AND WORK THIS OUT. Wow. I never thought of all of this before.
eg 6: Dimitri is Greek. Him and Ruth have conversations in Greek when the camera is switched off about "home."
eg 7: Ignore John for a moment (If someone feels like they can make sense of that feel free in the comments. I've been trying ever since I first saw 9.7 and 8) Lucas loves but hates Harry, much like he loves/hates himself. HARRY LEFT LUCAS IN RUSSIAN PRISON FOR EIGHT YEARS. LUCAS IS STILL ANGRY ABOUT THIS. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, HE WANTS TO PLEASE HARRY BECAUSE ROS IS DEAD SO HE CAN'T TRY AND PLEASE/OBEY HER ANYMORE. Like Hestia says, Lucas needs someone to tell him what to do be they good, bad or indifferent. Show canon in my head k?
LUCAS NOTE: the second Ros died we all should have known Lucas was f***ed. Ruth is more team leader than Lucas s9.
I especially love that the characters of Beth and Dimitri have been established not so much in the show as mischievious and cheeky and silly and a little bit childlike and romantic yet fan fic has pretty much taken off with them and weaved them as being those things into people's show canon and assumed a relationship or at least a spark between them into the process. It's kind of cool that fan fic has the power to do that. I think that Tariq, Dimitri and Beth have all been so underwritten this series (and Tariq in series eight) that people have to make up a backstory just to get anywhere with a fic plot and somehow these characterisations move into the public space and become a kind of constructed fact.
So flist do you have any Spooks fan fic canon that is now irrevocable fact in your head even if the show has never agreed with you? Tell me all about it :)
I've been thinking about how Spooks fandom has made me see characters as specific canon in my head that now will always be that way even though the show itself has never specified or necessarily even implied these things.
eg 1: Tariq and Dimitri both have crushes on Ruth and they both know they can't compete with Harry and sometimes go back to each others houses or the pub and talk about it and comfort each other.
eg 2: Even though Dimitri has a bit of a crush on Ruth, Beth/Dimitri is totally canon in my head now. Show don't deny this. Beth and Dimitri would be the shiz together.
eg 3: Beth has a wicked sense of humour and would enjoy playing tricks on Lucas in her spare time. Dimitri helps her, trying to make Ruth laugh. Again show, don't deny this ;)
eg 4: Malcolm was the one to be so overt to Ruth about what was happening with R/H back in series five days because he is too much like Ruth and he was afraid she would end up like him ie alone. Does Ruth know this? Is this why she is upset by him talking about her and Harry's date? Sometimes I think so.
eg 5: Ruth still hasn't put Danny's ghost to rest and at the Spooks endless angst rate probably never will. She has always been full of this s8 and 9 darkness and anger only now it is more obvious. The anger has been building up inside all along since there was never time to mourn. Fact. Maybe it even goes all the way back to Tom walking into an ocean. I have to rewatch and decide on that yet. But Zoe leaving, and Danny loving Zoe, that totally meant something to Ruth, even if it didn't to anyone else. That mattered and when other people just kept keeping on, was that Ruth already breaking a little inside?
Uhoh, my head starts to hurt when I think too much about Ruth because now I've got to thinking, maybe this really was building up ever since Tom started losing it and Ruth had a conversation about standing by Harry sitting on a bench and it all led to Danny dying and no time to grieve and she just never told anyone at all and Harry thinks thats a good thing in series four because Ruth is a born spook and she'll always be loyal to Harry but at the same time him admiring this in Ruth is him destroying her, helping to turn her into the person who can't be with him.
And maybe Ruth doesn't tell anyone about needing time to mourn after Danny again because she's trying to be the person Harry thinks she is or wants her to be ie the born spook. And then she comes back and George dying mirrors Danny dying and all of the other Spooks Ruth knew dying or leaving and it all comes back and her coldness in eight/nine mirrors the fact that Harry never stopped her from leaving him in 5.5 and that was maybe seen by Ruth as his approval of her becoming desesitisied into being more like the others when really what Harry loves about Ruth is her morality and her strange innocence AND OMG THAT NAIVITY HAS ALL BEEN STRIPPED AWAY FROM RUTH BUT SHE COULDN'T CONTROL THAT AND ALL OF THIS COULD BE SEEN AS HARRY'S FAULT AND SHIT I THINK I JUST GOT TO THE CRUX OF WHY RUTH IS SO ANGRY.
And then at the end of 9.8 when it's finally Harry's turn, Ruth is crying not just for Harry but for Lucas, for everyone, for herself because until now she's never allowed herself the outward show of emotion. There's no time to grieve yet again but she can't take it anymore and just does. It's been all bottled up inside until she just snapped. AND OMG I JUST REMEMBERED THAT TOM SHOT HARRY AT THE END OF 2.10 AND RUTH CRIES THEN AND BACK THEN I WASN'T REALLY CERTAIN WHO SHE WAS CRYING FOR? TOM- HER FRIEND? OR HARRY- HER BOSS LOVE? AND THAT MIRRORS LUCAS THREATENING TO SHOOT HARRY AND RUTH CRIES AGAIN AND AGAIN I DON'T KNOW WHO SHE'S REALLY CRYING FOR AND DID THE SHOW INTEND TO MAKE THAT PARALLEL BECAUSE THAT WAS PRETTY DAMN CLEVER IF THEY DID AND NOW I WANT TO REWATCH ALL OF THE EARLY SEASONS TO TRY AND WORK THIS OUT. Wow. I never thought of all of this before.
eg 6: Dimitri is Greek. Him and Ruth have conversations in Greek when the camera is switched off about "home."
eg 7: Ignore John for a moment (If someone feels like they can make sense of that feel free in the comments. I've been trying ever since I first saw 9.7 and 8) Lucas loves but hates Harry, much like he loves/hates himself. HARRY LEFT LUCAS IN RUSSIAN PRISON FOR EIGHT YEARS. LUCAS IS STILL ANGRY ABOUT THIS. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, HE WANTS TO PLEASE HARRY BECAUSE ROS IS DEAD SO HE CAN'T TRY AND PLEASE/OBEY HER ANYMORE. Like Hestia says, Lucas needs someone to tell him what to do be they good, bad or indifferent. Show canon in my head k?
LUCAS NOTE: the second Ros died we all should have known Lucas was f***ed. Ruth is more team leader than Lucas s9.
I especially love that the characters of Beth and Dimitri have been established not so much in the show as mischievious and cheeky and silly and a little bit childlike and romantic yet fan fic has pretty much taken off with them and weaved them as being those things into people's show canon and assumed a relationship or at least a spark between them into the process. It's kind of cool that fan fic has the power to do that. I think that Tariq, Dimitri and Beth have all been so underwritten this series (and Tariq in series eight) that people have to make up a backstory just to get anywhere with a fic plot and somehow these characterisations move into the public space and become a kind of constructed fact.
So flist do you have any Spooks fan fic canon that is now irrevocable fact in your head even if the show has never agreed with you? Tell me all about it :)
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no subject
Date: 2011-01-10 11:47 am (UTC)I love fanfic but and it really has come to a point where fact and fiction have blurred for me. I read stuff and get confused over whether it's cannon or not. I remember the first time I read a fic that mentioned Dimitri fancying Ruth and I was a little taken aback because I never picked up on this in the show at all. I thought I'd blinked and missed a really important moment. Now, I just believe it and on rewatching series nine I'm sure my mind will fill in moments for this to be true.
Also, yes to the Beth/Dimitri thing.
2.10 AND 9.8 PARALLELS - YOU WIN! Thank you so much for pointing this out.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-10 12:41 pm (UTC)Max Brown mentioned once in an interview (I think before the season aired) that Dimitri had a crush on Ruth but this was never played out in the series other than "Oiii Evershed" maybe? Basically us ficcer's took Max's word for it and ran with it. Hey- I dig it :P I swear to God that Tariq has a crush on Ruth too though!!!
I'm pretty sure Beth/Dimitri is now show canon for AT LEAST two thirds of Spooks fandom... and that other third, they're all on the Alec/Beth bandwagon I betcha ;)
I KNOW RIGHT! I LITERALLY ONLY REALISED THE PARRALELS AS I WAS TYPING THIS POST UP. AM I IMAGINING THINGS OR ARE THEY THERE? I love the 2.10 finale and can't wait to watch it and 9.8 back to back and compare :P