Spooks thoughts (again...)
Jan. 10th, 2011 03:45 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
dweomeroflightSpoilers for series eight and nine under cut :)
I've been thinking about how Spooks fandom has made me see characters as specific canon in my head that now will always be that way even though the show itself has never specified or necessarily even implied these things.
eg 1: Tariq and Dimitri both have crushes on Ruth and they both know they can't compete with Harry and sometimes go back to each others houses or the pub and talk about it and comfort each other.
eg 2: Even though Dimitri has a bit of a crush on Ruth, Beth/Dimitri is totally canon in my head now. Show don't deny this. Beth and Dimitri would be the shiz together.
eg 3: Beth has a wicked sense of humour and would enjoy playing tricks on Lucas in her spare time. Dimitri helps her, trying to make Ruth laugh. Again show, don't deny this ;)
eg 4: Malcolm was the one to be so overt to Ruth about what was happening with R/H back in series five days because he is too much like Ruth and he was afraid she would end up like him ie alone. Does Ruth know this? Is this why she is upset by him talking about her and Harry's date? Sometimes I think so.
eg 5: Ruth still hasn't put Danny's ghost to rest and at the Spooks endless angst rate probably never will. She has always been full of this s8 and 9 darkness and anger only now it is more obvious. The anger has been building up inside all along since there was never time to mourn. Fact. Maybe it even goes all the way back to Tom walking into an ocean. I have to rewatch and decide on that yet. But Zoe leaving, and Danny loving Zoe, that totally meant something to Ruth, even if it didn't to anyone else. That mattered and when other people just kept keeping on, was that Ruth already breaking a little inside?
Uhoh, my head starts to hurt when I think too much about Ruth because now I've got to thinking, maybe this really was building up ever since Tom started losing it and Ruth had a conversation about standing by Harry sitting on a bench and it all led to Danny dying and no time to grieve and she just never told anyone at all and Harry thinks thats a good thing in series four because Ruth is a born spook and she'll always be loyal to Harry but at the same time him admiring this in Ruth is him destroying her, helping to turn her into the person who can't be with him.
And maybe Ruth doesn't tell anyone about needing time to mourn after Danny again because she's trying to be the person Harry thinks she is or wants her to be ie the born spook. And then she comes back and George dying mirrors Danny dying and all of the other Spooks Ruth knew dying or leaving and it all comes back and her coldness in eight/nine mirrors the fact that Harry never stopped her from leaving him in 5.5 and that was maybe seen by Ruth as his approval of her becoming desesitisied into being more like the others when really what Harry loves about Ruth is her morality and her strange innocence AND OMG THAT NAIVITY HAS ALL BEEN STRIPPED AWAY FROM RUTH BUT SHE COULDN'T CONTROL THAT AND ALL OF THIS COULD BE SEEN AS HARRY'S FAULT AND SHIT I THINK I JUST GOT TO THE CRUX OF WHY RUTH IS SO ANGRY.
And then at the end of 9.8 when it's finally Harry's turn, Ruth is crying not just for Harry but for Lucas, for everyone, for herself because until now she's never allowed herself the outward show of emotion. There's no time to grieve yet again but she can't take it anymore and just does. It's been all bottled up inside until she just snapped. AND OMG I JUST REMEMBERED THAT TOM SHOT HARRY AT THE END OF 2.10 AND RUTH CRIES THEN AND BACK THEN I WASN'T REALLY CERTAIN WHO SHE WAS CRYING FOR? TOM- HER FRIEND? OR HARRY- HER BOSS LOVE? AND THAT MIRRORS LUCAS THREATENING TO SHOOT HARRY AND RUTH CRIES AGAIN AND AGAIN I DON'T KNOW WHO SHE'S REALLY CRYING FOR AND DID THE SHOW INTEND TO MAKE THAT PARALLEL BECAUSE THAT WAS PRETTY DAMN CLEVER IF THEY DID AND NOW I WANT TO REWATCH ALL OF THE EARLY SEASONS TO TRY AND WORK THIS OUT. Wow. I never thought of all of this before.
eg 6: Dimitri is Greek. Him and Ruth have conversations in Greek when the camera is switched off about "home."
eg 7: Ignore John for a moment (If someone feels like they can make sense of that feel free in the comments. I've been trying ever since I first saw 9.7 and 8) Lucas loves but hates Harry, much like he loves/hates himself. HARRY LEFT LUCAS IN RUSSIAN PRISON FOR EIGHT YEARS. LUCAS IS STILL ANGRY ABOUT THIS. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, HE WANTS TO PLEASE HARRY BECAUSE ROS IS DEAD SO HE CAN'T TRY AND PLEASE/OBEY HER ANYMORE. Like Hestia says, Lucas needs someone to tell him what to do be they good, bad or indifferent. Show canon in my head k?
LUCAS NOTE: the second Ros died we all should have known Lucas was f***ed. Ruth is more team leader than Lucas s9.
I especially love that the characters of Beth and Dimitri have been established not so much in the show as mischievious and cheeky and silly and a little bit childlike and romantic yet fan fic has pretty much taken off with them and weaved them as being those things into people's show canon and assumed a relationship or at least a spark between them into the process. It's kind of cool that fan fic has the power to do that. I think that Tariq, Dimitri and Beth have all been so underwritten this series (and Tariq in series eight) that people have to make up a backstory just to get anywhere with a fic plot and somehow these characterisations move into the public space and become a kind of constructed fact.
So flist do you have any Spooks fan fic canon that is now irrevocable fact in your head even if the show has never agreed with you? Tell me all about it :)
I've been thinking about how Spooks fandom has made me see characters as specific canon in my head that now will always be that way even though the show itself has never specified or necessarily even implied these things.
eg 1: Tariq and Dimitri both have crushes on Ruth and they both know they can't compete with Harry and sometimes go back to each others houses or the pub and talk about it and comfort each other.
eg 2: Even though Dimitri has a bit of a crush on Ruth, Beth/Dimitri is totally canon in my head now. Show don't deny this. Beth and Dimitri would be the shiz together.
eg 3: Beth has a wicked sense of humour and would enjoy playing tricks on Lucas in her spare time. Dimitri helps her, trying to make Ruth laugh. Again show, don't deny this ;)
eg 4: Malcolm was the one to be so overt to Ruth about what was happening with R/H back in series five days because he is too much like Ruth and he was afraid she would end up like him ie alone. Does Ruth know this? Is this why she is upset by him talking about her and Harry's date? Sometimes I think so.
eg 5: Ruth still hasn't put Danny's ghost to rest and at the Spooks endless angst rate probably never will. She has always been full of this s8 and 9 darkness and anger only now it is more obvious. The anger has been building up inside all along since there was never time to mourn. Fact. Maybe it even goes all the way back to Tom walking into an ocean. I have to rewatch and decide on that yet. But Zoe leaving, and Danny loving Zoe, that totally meant something to Ruth, even if it didn't to anyone else. That mattered and when other people just kept keeping on, was that Ruth already breaking a little inside?
Uhoh, my head starts to hurt when I think too much about Ruth because now I've got to thinking, maybe this really was building up ever since Tom started losing it and Ruth had a conversation about standing by Harry sitting on a bench and it all led to Danny dying and no time to grieve and she just never told anyone at all and Harry thinks thats a good thing in series four because Ruth is a born spook and she'll always be loyal to Harry but at the same time him admiring this in Ruth is him destroying her, helping to turn her into the person who can't be with him.
And maybe Ruth doesn't tell anyone about needing time to mourn after Danny again because she's trying to be the person Harry thinks she is or wants her to be ie the born spook. And then she comes back and George dying mirrors Danny dying and all of the other Spooks Ruth knew dying or leaving and it all comes back and her coldness in eight/nine mirrors the fact that Harry never stopped her from leaving him in 5.5 and that was maybe seen by Ruth as his approval of her becoming desesitisied into being more like the others when really what Harry loves about Ruth is her morality and her strange innocence AND OMG THAT NAIVITY HAS ALL BEEN STRIPPED AWAY FROM RUTH BUT SHE COULDN'T CONTROL THAT AND ALL OF THIS COULD BE SEEN AS HARRY'S FAULT AND SHIT I THINK I JUST GOT TO THE CRUX OF WHY RUTH IS SO ANGRY.
And then at the end of 9.8 when it's finally Harry's turn, Ruth is crying not just for Harry but for Lucas, for everyone, for herself because until now she's never allowed herself the outward show of emotion. There's no time to grieve yet again but she can't take it anymore and just does. It's been all bottled up inside until she just snapped. AND OMG I JUST REMEMBERED THAT TOM SHOT HARRY AT THE END OF 2.10 AND RUTH CRIES THEN AND BACK THEN I WASN'T REALLY CERTAIN WHO SHE WAS CRYING FOR? TOM- HER FRIEND? OR HARRY- HER BOSS LOVE? AND THAT MIRRORS LUCAS THREATENING TO SHOOT HARRY AND RUTH CRIES AGAIN AND AGAIN I DON'T KNOW WHO SHE'S REALLY CRYING FOR AND DID THE SHOW INTEND TO MAKE THAT PARALLEL BECAUSE THAT WAS PRETTY DAMN CLEVER IF THEY DID AND NOW I WANT TO REWATCH ALL OF THE EARLY SEASONS TO TRY AND WORK THIS OUT. Wow. I never thought of all of this before.
eg 6: Dimitri is Greek. Him and Ruth have conversations in Greek when the camera is switched off about "home."
eg 7: Ignore John for a moment (If someone feels like they can make sense of that feel free in the comments. I've been trying ever since I first saw 9.7 and 8) Lucas loves but hates Harry, much like he loves/hates himself. HARRY LEFT LUCAS IN RUSSIAN PRISON FOR EIGHT YEARS. LUCAS IS STILL ANGRY ABOUT THIS. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, HE WANTS TO PLEASE HARRY BECAUSE ROS IS DEAD SO HE CAN'T TRY AND PLEASE/OBEY HER ANYMORE. Like Hestia says, Lucas needs someone to tell him what to do be they good, bad or indifferent. Show canon in my head k?
LUCAS NOTE: the second Ros died we all should have known Lucas was f***ed. Ruth is more team leader than Lucas s9.
I especially love that the characters of Beth and Dimitri have been established not so much in the show as mischievious and cheeky and silly and a little bit childlike and romantic yet fan fic has pretty much taken off with them and weaved them as being those things into people's show canon and assumed a relationship or at least a spark between them into the process. It's kind of cool that fan fic has the power to do that. I think that Tariq, Dimitri and Beth have all been so underwritten this series (and Tariq in series eight) that people have to make up a backstory just to get anywhere with a fic plot and somehow these characterisations move into the public space and become a kind of constructed fact.
So flist do you have any Spooks fan fic canon that is now irrevocable fact in your head even if the show has never agreed with you? Tell me all about it :)
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2011-01-10 06:27 am (UTC)YAY TARIQ. He needs a friend.
Ohhhh, Lucas was so fucked when Ros died. I mean, he was always fucked, but. AND HARRY. TRUSSSST ISSUES.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-10 06:42 am (UTC)And writing these out makes me want to fill in the blanks of what happened between the episodes so bad. Like back in the day, there was interaction between the characters about all kinds of things (oh Sam/Tom/Danny/Ruth/Zoe/Malcolm/Colin interactions. How I miss you) but now we all have to try and guess the blanks ourselves which is annoying when watching the show but good for fan fic writers :P
I wonder if the lack of Dimitri and Tariq backstory is why quite a few people ship the two together? Because seriously we knoiw nothing about Tariq AT ALL and Dimitri is only marginally better.
HAHA LUCAS AND HARRY IS TOTALLY TRUST ISSUES. Harry is probably not the safest person to trust. His morality changes by the second. He can turn on someone at any moment :P Ros had the bonus of being no nonsense and getting down to the job at hand. She also was useful to have in the case of fork stabbing. God I miss her. Maybe I should write some Lucas/Ros fic one day.
Ironically I have set myself a months break from fan fic writing and now this post wants me to write fic more than ever :P
no subject
Date: 2011-01-10 06:44 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-10 11:47 am (UTC)I love fanfic but and it really has come to a point where fact and fiction have blurred for me. I read stuff and get confused over whether it's cannon or not. I remember the first time I read a fic that mentioned Dimitri fancying Ruth and I was a little taken aback because I never picked up on this in the show at all. I thought I'd blinked and missed a really important moment. Now, I just believe it and on rewatching series nine I'm sure my mind will fill in moments for this to be true.
Also, yes to the Beth/Dimitri thing.
2.10 AND 9.8 PARALLELS - YOU WIN! Thank you so much for pointing this out.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-10 12:41 pm (UTC)Max Brown mentioned once in an interview (I think before the season aired) that Dimitri had a crush on Ruth but this was never played out in the series other than "Oiii Evershed" maybe? Basically us ficcer's took Max's word for it and ran with it. Hey- I dig it :P I swear to God that Tariq has a crush on Ruth too though!!!
I'm pretty sure Beth/Dimitri is now show canon for AT LEAST two thirds of Spooks fandom... and that other third, they're all on the Alec/Beth bandwagon I betcha ;)
I KNOW RIGHT! I LITERALLY ONLY REALISED THE PARRALELS AS I WAS TYPING THIS POST UP. AM I IMAGINING THINGS OR ARE THEY THERE? I love the 2.10 finale and can't wait to watch it and 9.8 back to back and compare :P
no subject
Date: 2011-01-11 09:57 pm (UTC)eg 5: Ruth still hasn't put Danny's ghost to rest and at the Spooks endless angst rate probably never will. She has always been full of this s8 and 9 darkness and anger only now it is more obvious. The anger has been building up inside all along since there was never time to mourn. Fact. Maybe it even goes all the way back to Tom walking into an ocean. I have to rewatch and decide on that yet. But Zoe leaving, and Danny loving Zoe, that totally meant something to Ruth, even if it didn't to anyone else. That mattered and when other people just kept keeping on, was that Ruth already breaking a little inside?
THIS. ALL OF IT!! That 'never time to mourn' line has I swear been haunting me ever since Ruth came back. I was planning on working it into a 9.8 fic at some point.
And yes, Zoe leaving, and Danny loving Zoe, that totally meant something to Ruth, even if it didn't to anyone else. Abso-blimming-lutely.
And now to go back to all your other fan-created show-canon...
eg 1: Tariq and Dimitri both have crushes on Ruth and they both know they can't compete with Harry and sometimes go back to each others houses or the pub and talk about it and comfort each other.
Yes! Apart from the whole talking about it thing - I agree that they both have crushes on her =P Also, Tariq blatantly had a crush on Ros, even if her was absolutely terrified of her at time...
>>> Also, do you have a link to the interview where Max Brown said about the Dimitri having a crush on Ruth thing??
eg 2: Even though Dimitri has a bit of a crush on Ruth, Beth/Dimitri is totally canon in my head now. Show don't deny this. Beth and Dimitri would be the shiz together.
I love the fact that this is totally taken as show-fact now in fic. LOVE them two!! (In fic that is - love Dimitri in the show too, but never really got Beth as much.)
eg 3: Beth has a wicked sense of humour and would enjoy playing tricks on Lucas in her spare time. Dimitri helps her, trying to make Ruth laugh. Again show, don't deny this ;)
Not sure about the 'in order to make Lucas laugh', but practical jokes/tricks, YES.
>>> Also, Tariq/Dimitri have blatantly taken over Zaf's books and encourage Grid-gambling...
eg 4: Malcolm was the one to be so overt to Ruth about what was happening with R/H back in series five days because he is too much like Ruth and he was afraid she would end up like him ie alone!
Never thought of it like that, but OMG YES!!!!!
eg 6: Dimitri is Greek. Him and Ruth have conversations in Greek when the camera is switched off about "home."
Don't even need to discuss this one. It's fact. End of.
Lucas loves but hates Harry, much like he loves/hates himself
Again, and I sound like a parrot now, YES.
LUCAS NOTE: the second Ros died we all should have known Lucas was f***ed. Ruth is more team leader than Lucas s9.
Actually, yes again. On both accounts. Thing is, Lucas and Ros were such a great team together (S7 you beauties). Then once they started drifting apart (thank you Nancy Drew, and the shooting of Jo) they literally seemed to fall apart on an individual level too, as though they cannot function properly without one another. Perhaps that's just me though (because Ros/Lucas, whether as a couple or simply as a killer team of awesomeness, is show canon anyway ;D)
Also, I actually love you for your 2.10/9.8 parallels. OMFG!!
I have another of 'canon' to add to the list:
Beth enjoys her evening glass of wine, in which she has impeccable taste and a stash at hand in the frige. Fact.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-12 02:40 am (UTC)I meant Dimitri played the pratcical jokes to make Ruth laugh, Beth just does it for the lolz.
I KNOW RIGHT ABOUT MALCOLM. IT TOTALLY MAKES RUTH'S EMBRASSSMENT MAKE MORE SENSE IN 5.3? OR WHATEVER IT WAS.
WOW. Love your thoughts on Ros/Lucas. They were such a bad ass team together, but divided they both broke down :(
The 2.10/9.8 parallels scare me. They came into me head out of nowhere but now I'm like WOW SHOW.
I like your show canon and I think I agree. I imagine that she and Ruth occasionally drink together and have "girl" chats that involve Beth being in Ruth's face and Ruth being mother hen.
TARIQ/DIMITRI TAKING OVER ZAF'S BOOKS=MEGA WIN.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-12 04:37 pm (UTC)I meant Dimitri played the pratcical jokes to make Ruth laugh, Beth just does it for the lolz.
Oh, I see =P I reckon Beth does it to cheer Ruth up too, but perhaps more because she has to literally live with her (and obviously wants her friend to be happy) than simply 'for the lolz'
I KNOW RIGHT ABOUT MALCOLM. IT TOTALLY MAKES RUTH'S EMBRASSSMENT MAKE MORE SENSE IN 5.3? OR WHATEVER IT WAS.
This is where I am not happy my computer failed. Basically, I was questioning whether Ruth is embarrased simply over the fact that people have been gossipping (in the nicest possible way in that its out of genuine concern/friendship) about her, or the fact that it's Malcolm who's encouraging her relationship with Harry (or both of the above).
>>>For the first option, perhaps she's embarrassed because she's not used to being in the limelight, perhaps because she's consciously been avoiding it because she feel uncomfortable there (perhaps slightly messed up childhood and/or potentially anti-social (in the highly studious sense) youth may have contributed to this..
>>>For the second, perhaps she is embarrassed that Malcolm is the one to be encouraging her, because maybe she this he doesn't want her to be alone like her is, and she misinterprets his encouragement as she thinks she might be appearing desperate if he's the one to be encouraging her. IDK...
Ros and Lucas as a team were awesome. I think that's why I love S7 sooo much!
Another fic canon to add: everyone seems to nickname Dimitri 'Sailor Boy' now...