The Problem of Spooks: Part One
Jul. 23rd, 2011 10:58 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
dweomeroflightI've been meaning to write Spooks meta forever but I kept putting it off because I have so much to say, not all of which is complimentary. I love Spooks as a show (most of the time), I love the characters, the actors and the whole "spying thing." I based the title for this post off Neil Gaiman's 'The Problem of Susan': a critical response to C.S.Lewis' treatment of Susan Pevensie in the Chronicles of Narnia. This is because I believe as a writer that critical engagement with a text is important.
In a later post, I will look back and highlight things that have been problematic for Spooks for awhile now (circa s4 and 5) but first I really think I need to deal with Spooks, series nine as myself and![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
the_silverdoe keep spamming up our flist's entries with random Nine Meta and I feel sorry for my poor flist.
There has been so much fandom wank over series nine. So much so that it is very difficult to have an opinion on the matter anywhere but your own blog. It was this wankery that had me leave the forums due to refusal to allow alternative opinions and fan silencing. I was labelled weird things like "intellectual snob" for pointing out the very obvious... "Lucas and John SAY WHAT?" But the thing is, I'm not one to be silenced and I feel like if I just write this all out I will feel alot better and stop annoying everyone with my meta left, right and centre.
Ah. Spooks series nine. Was Lucas North in 9.7 and 8 a character assasination? Was it a case of deconstruction? I don't know if the answers to these questions particularly matter and I don't know if I would go that far myself because what I care about is the quality of the writing itself. What does matter is wether or not the story made sense. Wether or not this made for a logical progression from s7 through to the final reveal in 9.8. The simple answer to this is that no it did not.
And now on to my s9 fandom gripe. There seems to be an odd perception amongst certain people in Spooks fandom that if you disliked Lucas is John story you must be a batshit crazy Armitage Army supporter, or at the very least a person who doesn't mind the odd fantasy about RA and therefore got unjustifyably annoyed when his character ceased to be the hero (the writers seem to number amongst these people from one interview in particular). Such an assertion is frankly idiotic. One can be invested in a character without them being your favourite one or being their fangirl having sexy dreams about them. One can have a favourite character who is bad (HELLO BELLATRIX LESTRANGE/or closer to Spooks spygran/Connie) and still like their character and storyline. It's a very simple equation. Things just have to make sense.
The problem with Spooks series nine and Lucas is John is that without a lot of magical explaining away and filling in gaps yourself it didn't make for an understandable plot. Spooks s7 established an ambiguous plotline re Harry and Lucas and Russian prison and trust issues. This was kind of continued on the side in s8, but mainly Lucas' dedication and loyalty to the team was emphasised. Therefore, the logical plot progression from this point is to have a storyline involving Russia and Harry and the morals and ethics of torture and spooking and most importantly loyalty. Series nine wildly sidestepped this dangling plot thread by creating a new convoluted plot. I'm not saying the plot could never have worked with alot of thought, but never in eight episodes with two new characters in Maya and Vaugn plus a suitcase plus fake file Albany plus Chinese involvement it was all too much! For any writer to coherently manage! Not only that, we were told that Lucas had somehow repressed his personality and had faked being someone else for years, the ultimate betrayer, despite the shows previous insistence on his excessive loyalty. And MI5 had never noticed this.
At this point I will quote another blogger because they said this so much more eloquently than me, Lucas North... Nowhere Man, Mr In Between, The Man Who Never Was. All are fitting, I think, because there are no concise means to capture this enigma in a vortex of illogic that was Lucas' ill-fated storyline and character in Spooks Series 9. When Maya said in 9.8 "You know how I knew it was the truth? Because for the first time you made sense," I agree with Vicky Frost at The Guardian. That's bloody optimistic Maya. Lucas makes less sense than ever before.
The blogger goes on to say, Many have commented on the complete abrogation of this character by the middle of Series 9 for the sake of introducing a psychopath who can't be a psychopath, imaginatively named Bateman. Who is John Bateman? Lucas' alter ego? A split personality? No, he is a remorseless murderer who dreamed 15 years of a noble and self-sacrificial life as an MI 5 Agent, who, then, willy nilly, went back to killing without conscience for the sake of true love and an innocence he never possessed. Lucas/John was all over the place ashestia8 pointed out. One second he was cold blooded and hyper organised and devilishly intelligent. The next he was a snivelling coward with a soft heart who just wanted "To be someone." Well so do I writers, so do I. But I didn't think killing someone would give me my dream identity.
Nothing that happened to not-Lucas could ever be tragic. Nothing was. That he escape or died? A mere bagatelle. After all his banging on, not-Lucas slipped quietly away, unmourned. There was nothing tragic about any part of his life. Not Lucas=John just sos you know ;) And every word of this rings true. John was a cipher, a blank slate, a black spot of evil to prove a point. And this is the reason I suspect, that many fans said they felt nothing when he died.
Now we get onto what is most relevant to me: With the advent of John, the only thing truly tragic about Lucas is that his story was never played out. It was replaced. And Lucas ceased to exist. But all of John's suffering belonged to Lucas and will always belong to Lucas of Series 7 and 8. Not only have the writers ignored the trajectory of Lucas in s7 and 8, they have also ruined fans perceptions of him in those earlier seasons. How difficult is it to block out John now we have seen series nine? How is it possible to seperate Lucas from John when nine is the only complete answer about his character that we will ever get? As the blogger writes, Lucas is not even dignified with any sort of ending, never mind a noble one. He doesn't go out with a bang or a whimper. Meanwhile, the character of Bateman, absurdly, can only pretend to have Lucas' qualities, and pretend to have his emotions and behaviour, like some overgrown sock puppet.
The Lucas is John story is an enormous copout, not just for Lucas/RA/Harry fans, but also and here's the part I wish certain people would get into their thick skulls anyone who was remotely interested in and invested in the Lucas storyline As Spooks has always sold itself as a character ensemble show, it is logical to assume that people are following more than one characters storyline. When a main characters storyline makes about as much sense as inviting Darth Vadar with his deathstar to your wedding, can you blame fans generally, RA fans or otherwise, for getting miffed?
Which brings me to another point. One three star Amazon reviewer wrote a lukewarm but still positive review about Spooks Nine mentioning that in the past it had been claimed that the scripts highlighted the actors talents. In this case, the person wrote, it was a case of the actors salvaging the script. And on the Spooks forum another, more critical person, wrote that the situation with Spooks had always been one of "high hokum fun," as PF said, and really, when have most of the situations ever been strictly believable? No, what anchors people to Spooks is the characters the one constant is connecting with the characters whichever ones they may be.
The Spooks nine writers made the mistake of using ridiculous plotlines with a ridiculous character progression (and it worries me that they seemed to have not learnt from this in terms of s10) and for some fans this has completely shattered both faith in the show and the beliveability factor. Before there was a realness to the characters, they were knowable. With the Lucas storyline there is no believability if you watch the show in sequence, we are not graced with the knowable in how John operates as Lucas, and this leaves us with what? Writers who effectively can retcon any story they like without caring what the fans think because there is so much wankery over the whole thing. And ultimately this is my problem with those who attempt to shut people like me down when we point these things out, when they claim us all to be either elitist snobs or Armitage Army Crazies; these Spooks fans silence an entire section of their own fandom and at the same time, give the writers legitimacy; legitimacy to do the whole thing all over again, perhaps with an even more popular character, with just as little respect for invested viewers.
Storytelling matters, and shock value won't keep fans forever. Have some respect for the show, for its characters, and for your audience who watches it,who would like some answers and would like to not have their intelligence insulted. I'm not saying writers should write to please everyone. They shouldn't. But they do need to respect that the audience is invested in longrunning characters, characters who already have a backstory that has yet to be explained and who already have certain canon traits set out. Respect is not an exclusive right handed to a privelaged few in the audience, it should extend to everyone, regardless of if they are involved with the Armitage Army gang or not. Lucas fans have just as much right to expect a sensible character trajectory for Lucas as Ruth fans expect the same for Ruth, Harry fans for Harry. Their opinion as hardcore RA fans, my opinion as a general Spooks fan, is perfectly as valid as yours.
And on that note I leave you with a question. If it had been Harry with the double life or even Ruth how many people would still be lauding the existential genius of the writers?
In a later post, I will look back and highlight things that have been problematic for Spooks for awhile now (circa s4 and 5) but first I really think I need to deal with Spooks, series nine as myself and
the_silverdoe keep spamming up our flist's entries with random Nine Meta and I feel sorry for my poor flist.There has been so much fandom wank over series nine. So much so that it is very difficult to have an opinion on the matter anywhere but your own blog. It was this wankery that had me leave the forums due to refusal to allow alternative opinions and fan silencing. I was labelled weird things like "intellectual snob" for pointing out the very obvious... "Lucas and John SAY WHAT?" But the thing is, I'm not one to be silenced and I feel like if I just write this all out I will feel alot better and stop annoying everyone with my meta left, right and centre.
Ah. Spooks series nine. Was Lucas North in 9.7 and 8 a character assasination? Was it a case of deconstruction? I don't know if the answers to these questions particularly matter and I don't know if I would go that far myself because what I care about is the quality of the writing itself. What does matter is wether or not the story made sense. Wether or not this made for a logical progression from s7 through to the final reveal in 9.8. The simple answer to this is that no it did not.
And now on to my s9 fandom gripe. There seems to be an odd perception amongst certain people in Spooks fandom that if you disliked Lucas is John story you must be a batshit crazy Armitage Army supporter, or at the very least a person who doesn't mind the odd fantasy about RA and therefore got unjustifyably annoyed when his character ceased to be the hero (the writers seem to number amongst these people from one interview in particular). Such an assertion is frankly idiotic. One can be invested in a character without them being your favourite one or being their fangirl having sexy dreams about them. One can have a favourite character who is bad (HELLO BELLATRIX LESTRANGE/or closer to Spooks spygran/Connie) and still like their character and storyline. It's a very simple equation. Things just have to make sense.
The problem with Spooks series nine and Lucas is John is that without a lot of magical explaining away and filling in gaps yourself it didn't make for an understandable plot. Spooks s7 established an ambiguous plotline re Harry and Lucas and Russian prison and trust issues. This was kind of continued on the side in s8, but mainly Lucas' dedication and loyalty to the team was emphasised. Therefore, the logical plot progression from this point is to have a storyline involving Russia and Harry and the morals and ethics of torture and spooking and most importantly loyalty. Series nine wildly sidestepped this dangling plot thread by creating a new convoluted plot. I'm not saying the plot could never have worked with alot of thought, but never in eight episodes with two new characters in Maya and Vaugn plus a suitcase plus fake file Albany plus Chinese involvement it was all too much! For any writer to coherently manage! Not only that, we were told that Lucas had somehow repressed his personality and had faked being someone else for years, the ultimate betrayer, despite the shows previous insistence on his excessive loyalty. And MI5 had never noticed this.
At this point I will quote another blogger because they said this so much more eloquently than me, Lucas North... Nowhere Man, Mr In Between, The Man Who Never Was. All are fitting, I think, because there are no concise means to capture this enigma in a vortex of illogic that was Lucas' ill-fated storyline and character in Spooks Series 9. When Maya said in 9.8 "You know how I knew it was the truth? Because for the first time you made sense," I agree with Vicky Frost at The Guardian. That's bloody optimistic Maya. Lucas makes less sense than ever before.
The blogger goes on to say, Many have commented on the complete abrogation of this character by the middle of Series 9 for the sake of introducing a psychopath who can't be a psychopath, imaginatively named Bateman. Who is John Bateman? Lucas' alter ego? A split personality? No, he is a remorseless murderer who dreamed 15 years of a noble and self-sacrificial life as an MI 5 Agent, who, then, willy nilly, went back to killing without conscience for the sake of true love and an innocence he never possessed. Lucas/John was all over the place as
hestia8 pointed out. One second he was cold blooded and hyper organised and devilishly intelligent. The next he was a snivelling coward with a soft heart who just wanted "To be someone." Well so do I writers, so do I. But I didn't think killing someone would give me my dream identity.Nothing that happened to not-Lucas could ever be tragic. Nothing was. That he escape or died? A mere bagatelle. After all his banging on, not-Lucas slipped quietly away, unmourned. There was nothing tragic about any part of his life. Not Lucas=John just sos you know ;) And every word of this rings true. John was a cipher, a blank slate, a black spot of evil to prove a point. And this is the reason I suspect, that many fans said they felt nothing when he died.
Now we get onto what is most relevant to me: With the advent of John, the only thing truly tragic about Lucas is that his story was never played out. It was replaced. And Lucas ceased to exist. But all of John's suffering belonged to Lucas and will always belong to Lucas of Series 7 and 8. Not only have the writers ignored the trajectory of Lucas in s7 and 8, they have also ruined fans perceptions of him in those earlier seasons. How difficult is it to block out John now we have seen series nine? How is it possible to seperate Lucas from John when nine is the only complete answer about his character that we will ever get? As the blogger writes, Lucas is not even dignified with any sort of ending, never mind a noble one. He doesn't go out with a bang or a whimper. Meanwhile, the character of Bateman, absurdly, can only pretend to have Lucas' qualities, and pretend to have his emotions and behaviour, like some overgrown sock puppet.
The Lucas is John story is an enormous copout, not just for Lucas/RA/Harry fans, but also and here's the part I wish certain people would get into their thick skulls anyone who was remotely interested in and invested in the Lucas storyline As Spooks has always sold itself as a character ensemble show, it is logical to assume that people are following more than one characters storyline. When a main characters storyline makes about as much sense as inviting Darth Vadar with his deathstar to your wedding, can you blame fans generally, RA fans or otherwise, for getting miffed?
Which brings me to another point. One three star Amazon reviewer wrote a lukewarm but still positive review about Spooks Nine mentioning that in the past it had been claimed that the scripts highlighted the actors talents. In this case, the person wrote, it was a case of the actors salvaging the script. And on the Spooks forum another, more critical person, wrote that the situation with Spooks had always been one of "high hokum fun," as PF said, and really, when have most of the situations ever been strictly believable? No, what anchors people to Spooks is the characters the one constant is connecting with the characters whichever ones they may be.
The Spooks nine writers made the mistake of using ridiculous plotlines with a ridiculous character progression (and it worries me that they seemed to have not learnt from this in terms of s10) and for some fans this has completely shattered both faith in the show and the beliveability factor. Before there was a realness to the characters, they were knowable. With the Lucas storyline there is no believability if you watch the show in sequence, we are not graced with the knowable in how John operates as Lucas, and this leaves us with what? Writers who effectively can retcon any story they like without caring what the fans think because there is so much wankery over the whole thing. And ultimately this is my problem with those who attempt to shut people like me down when we point these things out, when they claim us all to be either elitist snobs or Armitage Army Crazies; these Spooks fans silence an entire section of their own fandom and at the same time, give the writers legitimacy; legitimacy to do the whole thing all over again, perhaps with an even more popular character, with just as little respect for invested viewers.
Storytelling matters, and shock value won't keep fans forever. Have some respect for the show, for its characters, and for your audience who watches it,who would like some answers and would like to not have their intelligence insulted. I'm not saying writers should write to please everyone. They shouldn't. But they do need to respect that the audience is invested in longrunning characters, characters who already have a backstory that has yet to be explained and who already have certain canon traits set out. Respect is not an exclusive right handed to a privelaged few in the audience, it should extend to everyone, regardless of if they are involved with the Armitage Army gang or not. Lucas fans have just as much right to expect a sensible character trajectory for Lucas as Ruth fans expect the same for Ruth, Harry fans for Harry. Their opinion as hardcore RA fans, my opinion as a general Spooks fan, is perfectly as valid as yours.
And on that note I leave you with a question. If it had been Harry with the double life or even Ruth how many people would still be lauding the existential genius of the writers?
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2011-07-23 10:07 pm (UTC)Sorry what to be developed in s8? Is confused...
I don't think I explained myself very well. I wouldn't mind Harry being the big bad in terms of morally dubious decision making getting him kicked out in the cold (incidentally this is what the s10 storyline implies except I don't think the writers will be remotely brave enough to follow through with it). He just whined so much in s9 and spent his time being ineffectual that I wanted to punch him lol. Also, I found it annoying how he is allowed to do all of this questionable stuff consistently and everyone else gets kicked off the grid for it. I don't hate him prior to s9 I suppose. Actually, I suppose I don't hate him at all but he was very, very annoying in s9.
no subject
Date: 2011-07-23 10:18 pm (UTC)Agree. Like we said somewhere else (losing tracks lol), I miss the scenes we had in the past series, the little discussions between the characters, the scenes at home. But in s7 and 8, in spite of the lack of such scenes, and, yes, too much action imo and not enough characterization, the actors could compensate it with good acting and build strong characters anyway. In s9, it was no longer possible.
Sorry what to be developed in s8? Is confused...
The Ruth/Cyprus storyline, did you expect it to be developed in s8 or s9? Because you didn't say, so I was a bit confused by this part of your comment.
I get you re s9 Harry. I miss s7 Harry actually. The thing is, Ruth came back, which is good, but since she came back, Harry is not as badass as he used to be. And I miss badass Harry...
I wouldn't mind Harry being the big bad in terms of morally dubious decision making getting him kicked out in the cold
I wouldn't mind either, except I have a weird feeling that with these writers it will be messy and bad. I do hope I'm wrong though...
no subject
Date: 2011-07-23 10:25 pm (UTC)Actually, I felt that s7 had very strong characterisation in terms of Jo (the sexual assault trauma), Lucas (prison trauma), Ros (talks with Jo, getting to know what made her tick more), and even Connie with the traitor storyline. I also think we learnt alot more about Harry. But to the last bit of your sentence YES I AGREE.
I expected it in s9 when they started bandying about the word "traitor." I have no idea what the writers were trying to do with Ruth in s8. She was all over the place- one thing nine writers did get right imo.
I really liked early Harry and Ruth dynamics and ALSO 2.5 WHEN HE PUTS HIS ARM AROUND ZOE AND COMFORTS HER. HEARTS. Love s7 Harry too! I have to agree with you. Since Ruth came back Harry got wimpier.
You're not the first person to doubt the writing in s10. I can't wait for Hestia's recaps.
no subject
Date: 2011-07-23 10:35 pm (UTC)Hmm, sorry, I didn't think of s7, but s8. The character development could have been better in this one, but I didn't really mind. Actually, if I have to complain, too much of Lucas and his Sarah business and not enough Ros dealing with killing Jo imo, and not enough Ruth and Cyprus history, and Tariq= no development. It's a shame too.
Ah, all right. Well, certainly Ruth was better-used in s9, but I think it's because Ros was gone and they decided to under-use Beth, so major female character had to be Ruth, and at least she had a "proper part to play" in this. I liked the Harry/Ruth storyline, that's the only thing I thought was great in s9, they have good scened together, even if it means no more badass Harry.
Oh and I read
no subject
Date: 2011-07-23 10:47 pm (UTC)s8 yes for sure! TARIQ NEEDS A STORYLINE DAMNIT. I CAN'T EVEN FIC WRITE FOR HIM BECAUSE HE LITERALLY HAS NO CHARACTER.
I agree with you re Ruth/Harry s9 though I lean more towards Ruth of course. I felt that for the first time she was really treated as a character seperate from her relationship with Harry. I liked that. 9.7 was SCARY.
no subject
Date: 2011-07-23 10:55 pm (UTC)Hmm yeah, Tariq deserved better, I think he had even less character development than Sam Buxton, and that's saying something. :/
Well, I love Ruth and Harry equally, but it's the same idea. 9.7 OMG I thought she was gonna die I WAS SO SCARED! But that final scene of Ruth in the hospital, when she says the problem is she's fine... I loved it! Also loved the scenes she had with Lucas in 9.8, but I think I already told you that.
Ruth being treated as more than Harry's love interest was a very good thing, I'll give them credit for that at least.
no subject
Date: 2011-07-23 10:58 pm (UTC)I loved all of Ruth's storyline in 9.7. AMAZING. Loved that they used Keith Deery so cleverly to mirror her own character trajectory. My heart broke into thousands of tiny pieces. I may have told Nicola this repeatedly when I met her but she didn't seem to get annoyed :P 9.8 LUCAS/RUTH SCENES ARE LOVE. ONE DAY I WILL WRITE THE FIC WHERE I EXPAND UPON THAT. ONE DAY.
no subject
Date: 2011-07-23 11:05 pm (UTC)Yes, it reminded me of 3.7, storyline that revolves around Ruth= win! When did you meet Nicola???
Lol I have a fic in mind about that, although I don't really know what you mean by "expand". ;)
no subject
Date: 2011-07-23 11:07 pm (UTC)