The Twilight Saga: A discussion
Dec. 8th, 2009 11:55 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
dweomeroflightAnyone at all can join in with this and they do not have to be friends with me. Just remember to respect others opinions and not be rude to others. Also be sure to explain any reasons for your views :)
So anyway, I follow Mary-Ann Johanson at flickfilosopher quite a bit because
a) she blogs extensively on every episode of Doctor Who
b) she likes John Simm
c) she is a self confessed American Anglophile
d) she reviews movies in a way that is often in line with my views (sometimes I disagree but I still enjoy reading her views)
Anyway this week she has been asking people about Twilight and wether or not it encourages teenagers/young girls to romanticise domestic violence or abuse, based off the surmises of kar3ning's original jounal blog which has now gone viral. kar3ning saw New Moon and noticed the way it romanticised this DV and went to The National Domestic Violence Hotline to check wether or not Bella fitted the criteria for being abused. the link to her LJ is here...
http://kar3ning.livejournal.com/545639.html
Out of 15 questions, she determined that Bella would have to answer yes to all 15, definitely putting her on the DV map.
I have always thought this about the Twilight Saga. Just so everyone knows, I have read from twilight to eclipse and gave up at Breaking Dawn when the awful writing, and non existent plot meant I simply no longer cared about what happened to Bella so I have read 3 out of 4 of the books. I read the plot synopsis online for Breaking Dawn and frankly the plotline for that seemed to also romanticise domestic violence but people can tell me more if they like, to refute this point.
Actually one of the things that confused me, even in the first book, was the way that Stephanie Meyer kept comparing Bella and Edward's relationship to Romeo and Juliet's and Cathy and Heathcliff's from Wuthering Heights (and yes I have read both of those too). First off, Romeo and Juliet were doomed, tragic lovers so comparing them to Bella and Edward never made much sense to me in the first place seeings as their love was not tragic. But aside from that english nerd quip, Romeo and Juliet did not put demands on each other. Romeo did not forbid Juliet to see certain people, and nor did he threaten her with violence, break up or emotional blackmail if she did not do what he wanted.
The case of Cathy and Heathcliff is even more of an enigma to me and is one that I have often discussed in confusion with my friend. The way that Meyer writes about them, she implied that they shared a great love, similar to bella and Edward's. however, Cathy and Heathcliff share an unhealthy, obsessive love that ends in death and unhappiness for both parties. They are given consequences by Bronte for their jealousy and love hate relationship and emotional abuse. Meyer seems to reverse this theme, by implying that Bella and Edward's relationship is like this, and then portraying this relationship as a healthy one.
I don't find Bella and Edward's relationship healthy or particularly loving. Instead I find it possessive, obsessive, stifling and emotionally and psychologically abusive. I don't think this is a great message to be glorifying.
On the flip side of this, I do understand that it is good for teens to read, even if what they read is not great literature, and I do acknowledge that Twilight is not the source of all evil, nor do I doubt that most teenagers can define the difference between fantasy and reality.
What I do find more worrying, is the type of society that allows such beliefs to be acceptable because surely the books wouldn't be so popular amongst both teens and adults, if there wasn't a desire to read such a book. Does this mean that ideas about the acceptability of domestic violence are more institutionalised then we like to think? Are ideas about gender roles still there, but just under the surface of our society, rather than openly voiced, such as in the days of old.
I'd like to say no, but a part of me thinks the former is the truth... and THAT is a depressing thought
So anyway, I follow Mary-Ann Johanson at flickfilosopher quite a bit because
a) she blogs extensively on every episode of Doctor Who
b) she likes John Simm
c) she is a self confessed American Anglophile
d) she reviews movies in a way that is often in line with my views (sometimes I disagree but I still enjoy reading her views)
Anyway this week she has been asking people about Twilight and wether or not it encourages teenagers/young girls to romanticise domestic violence or abuse, based off the surmises of kar3ning's original jounal blog which has now gone viral. kar3ning saw New Moon and noticed the way it romanticised this DV and went to The National Domestic Violence Hotline to check wether or not Bella fitted the criteria for being abused. the link to her LJ is here...
http://kar3ning.livejournal.com/545639.html
Out of 15 questions, she determined that Bella would have to answer yes to all 15, definitely putting her on the DV map.
I have always thought this about the Twilight Saga. Just so everyone knows, I have read from twilight to eclipse and gave up at Breaking Dawn when the awful writing, and non existent plot meant I simply no longer cared about what happened to Bella so I have read 3 out of 4 of the books. I read the plot synopsis online for Breaking Dawn and frankly the plotline for that seemed to also romanticise domestic violence but people can tell me more if they like, to refute this point.
Actually one of the things that confused me, even in the first book, was the way that Stephanie Meyer kept comparing Bella and Edward's relationship to Romeo and Juliet's and Cathy and Heathcliff's from Wuthering Heights (and yes I have read both of those too). First off, Romeo and Juliet were doomed, tragic lovers so comparing them to Bella and Edward never made much sense to me in the first place seeings as their love was not tragic. But aside from that english nerd quip, Romeo and Juliet did not put demands on each other. Romeo did not forbid Juliet to see certain people, and nor did he threaten her with violence, break up or emotional blackmail if she did not do what he wanted.
The case of Cathy and Heathcliff is even more of an enigma to me and is one that I have often discussed in confusion with my friend. The way that Meyer writes about them, she implied that they shared a great love, similar to bella and Edward's. however, Cathy and Heathcliff share an unhealthy, obsessive love that ends in death and unhappiness for both parties. They are given consequences by Bronte for their jealousy and love hate relationship and emotional abuse. Meyer seems to reverse this theme, by implying that Bella and Edward's relationship is like this, and then portraying this relationship as a healthy one.
I don't find Bella and Edward's relationship healthy or particularly loving. Instead I find it possessive, obsessive, stifling and emotionally and psychologically abusive. I don't think this is a great message to be glorifying.
On the flip side of this, I do understand that it is good for teens to read, even if what they read is not great literature, and I do acknowledge that Twilight is not the source of all evil, nor do I doubt that most teenagers can define the difference between fantasy and reality.
What I do find more worrying, is the type of society that allows such beliefs to be acceptable because surely the books wouldn't be so popular amongst both teens and adults, if there wasn't a desire to read such a book. Does this mean that ideas about the acceptability of domestic violence are more institutionalised then we like to think? Are ideas about gender roles still there, but just under the surface of our society, rather than openly voiced, such as in the days of old.
I'd like to say no, but a part of me thinks the former is the truth... and THAT is a depressing thought
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no subject
Date: 2009-12-08 02:06 am (UTC)No really, that Bella is in a relationship that shows 15 signs of emotional + physical abuse doesn't surprise me. I think fans would try to explain it off like, 'Well, that shows how inhuman he is! <333' I really hope it doesn't take them to be in of those abusive relationships to snap them out of the glory that is Twilight....
You know, back in the Dark Ages when I liked Twilight, and the Twi-tards had not yet been brainwashed, I really eagerly read Wuthering Heights.
And when I put it down, i was quite depressed.
Heathcliff is a terrible, terrible person. Cathy is a bitch. ...? Heh? They were two terrible people in love, who ruined their children's lives for no other reason than that they were.... Terrible, selfish people.
What's the beautiful love story in that? Does Edward model himself after Heathcliff?
I think no matter what, the views society have of gender roles and of women's rightful place and male dominance and yadda yadda yadda will always be there. It's cooled down a lot, but... I don't think we'll ever get full gender equality.
Twilight is a daydream that should never have been written down.
I think honestly, my hate for Twilight has burned out and now it's just a smoking pile of grey ash, where I cannot seriously be bothered to think about and explain what I dislike and find terrible about it.
If you like Twilight, you like it. I lose a little bit of respect for you, but eh. Oh well.
no subject
Date: 2009-12-08 02:13 am (UTC)a) Meyer had not read the book
or
b) Meyer is an idiot
Going from interviews with her I'd go for B
no subject
Date: 2009-12-08 02:47 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-12-09 03:25 am (UTC)Twilight felt like it could have been written about women in the 50's with the way women are portrayed. They are either praised for being weak and submissive, remaining in the house, or painted in a negative way for being vain, obsessive and spiteful. AND A WOMAN WROTE THIS!!!
I guess I wouldn't care so much about Twilight if it wasn't for the fact that it is so popular and people regard it as the epitomy of fantasy or something?!?! It annoys me so much because far more talented authors like Katharine Kerr, Kate Elliot, Philip Pullman, Isobelle Carmody and Garth Nix get ignored in favour of such overrated garbage (in my view anyway)